Just vote the two party system out, and we can go back and prosecute these clowns for their crimes. They are stealing from you, and selling our rights to the British. The media is run by foreignors, and the economy is now based on printed money. How about that deal with the pork ban? These fuckers cannot imagine a world where politicians are not bought and paid for by foreignors, and American traitors.

They will give you nothing but fake distractions, and threaten you with cheap imported labor.

This is the absolute worst part of all of this: Our government, one example = Bill Frist, have been poisoning our citizens with the intention of making the British tons of money, and to enhance our physician's pocketbooks, as well as all of the dishonest doctors at Universities that benefit from research money to claim they are fighting disease. Most of this is now being done in secret, so there is no way to follow-up on any of it. They are spraying food crops destined for U.S. markets(Dyncorp) with paraquat, which will most certainly cause mutations/cancer. Nobody at any University will say anything about any of it, because their grant money comes from Unkle Swine, as does their loans for idiots to attend medical school for ten times what it is worth.

Simply put, we have a government that is run entirely on dishonesty and corruption, and we are getting stiffed with the bills for all of the problems they intentionally create. Then they will put dullards and foreinors at the head of the class to tell us that it is all good. Go figure.

those people can't handle the truth. jealousy!!!

Norway here I come in 2012!

Thank you Rasmussen:
Just for the sake of argument, which is almost always free, the "crazy lawsuits" you refer to are mostly just media exagerations. Like the Mcdonald's case, a case that even some trial lawyers did not like. The woman got less than $60,000, despite the media focused and favored story of $600,000 the jury awarded her. that covered her expenses, and wasn't worth the headache. Had they just admitted their role in it and offered to pay for her medical, it would have been resolved.
We have a lot of trial lawyers here, and they are kept in play by our lack of civil rights and fair play. The medical costs, lost wages, and all other matters of expense add up very quickly in these lawsuits because of high doctor wages, that never get paid in full, nor does the lost wages, and it is always a "Merchant of Venice" scenario as the "cut the baby in half" rather than doing the law. Everybody loses these days, except the lawyers. And insurance has nothing to lose on a big claim by defending it.

For the most part, it is all so simple and logical that even a caveman could figure it out, but for some reason they are able to distract our population with a ghecko or two, and their goes my rights and wallet as well.

It's good to hear from the world. I am no longer in attack mode.

On a related topic ;=)

If you are interested to migrate here I can offer you some small support. I run a couple of online support groups for expats. One is dedicated to Americans and there you can ask a lot of questions about how to accomplish this.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AmericanInNorway/
(of course its free)

I hope that more people will wake up to your point Robert. I agree 100% with the fact that if the US invested properly in caring for its citizens with basic social support them would not need (and they probably don’t need now) the investment they make in police and enforcement agencies not to mention prisons. But then that "investment" needs to be viewed as a publich service like law enforcement or fire service (that was my point). We need to get away from this mccarthiestic view of universal coverage.

If one looks at the incarceration rate in the US compared to the rest of the developed world, I suspect you can find the money to fund a lot of social programs (e.g. medical care). We have some problems here with crime but I certainly don’t even see a cop once a week and I have not seen an armed cop yet.

The "other" epiphany in my life recently is that my parents are reaching the retirement age. Despite working his whole life (in management) and paying middle class taxes, my father lost his nest egg in a business venture at 62. Now his health fails and he can’t work. Amazing how the system drops him into the waste basket. Mom is 59 and has diabetes. They use most of their meager income for medicine. It’s shameless.

Then I look at my in-laws, my mother-in-law never worked, her husband worked 45 years in an entry level factory job (never wanted more), never saved a kroner but paid off his debt his whole life. He is also 62 and the factory is releasing him early because of cost reduction. But he lives so much better! Health costs are no issue, his debts are paid because he did not live in the “material world” (as Madonna put it) and his pension is guaranteed by his fellow citizens who would not dream to let him down the way my parents are abandoned.

In the Moore film I was also moved by the expats in UK saying they “felt guilty” for their benefits in the UK when they had family struggling in the US. I feel that also.

Oh and one more point, here in Norway if someone is injured because of my actions he is only entitled to be compensated for his expenses. For example if someone slips in my driveway, he can sue me, but only for the costs of the taxi to the hospital. They don’t believe in punitive damages here. And maybe that is supported by the social infrastructure (the doctor in the example was paid already) and if the “victim” is out of work the state covers the difference. So you don’t get these crazy law suits.

A little about my political orientation ;=) I am not a die hard Republican. I would love to see a 3rd or 4th party in the mix. I voted libertarian in most other areas besides the presidency and would not vote again for Bush (yes I was wrong).

I believe as a capitalist that the state should never initiate force on its people. The state should be a steward of the people resources to invest in areas that secure a stable democracy. The US problem is that it just uses money in the wrong places, instead of punishing people, invest in them.

Reply to John Little:
I never said in the least bit that I don't like Norwegians, except when I ordered a hamburger and got a ham burger. Also the meat in brown sauce scared me when nobody knew what the meat was.

I trained at the Jaegerschool in Trondem, and still like it there, so you must have read me wrong. Also all of my wife's relatives are Norwegian.

I also remember the Lingenkluben., so your not correct in your assessment.

Moores film did not even touch the tip of the iceburg of pure corruption, and I am correct in telling you that if he had, his film would have never seen the light of day.

Mutual of Obamas largest campaign contributors are and will continue to be insurance companies who will make our medical system totally useless to many in states like mine.

My state of Wisconsin ranks 38th in medical care already, and 40th economically. Our mothers both live here, so we feel very bad about leaving and staying. California is a much richer state, so you can relax more.

Moore's film was much better than anything on 60 minutes, PBS, and 20/20, so he is at least not on the insurance company payrole like these others, but it really did not show just how systemically corrupt our government is.

Otherwise, I am a fan of European government's logical approach and already apologized to Rasmussen.

Tak for day.

Message to Robert Kunferman,

Take a chill pill and relax. You seemed hell-bent on debating people whether they agree with you or not. I'm Californian with ancestral roots in Norway. I saw Moore's video on it, and it describes exactly what I know about my ancestral roots. Norway's a beautiful country, just look at the conservative American who's been living there for 7 years and can do nothing but praise the place.
The Republicrats will never be able to achieve such a high level of social justice. Their mantra is based on a class system where the majority are bred to be the slaves of the few. Norway is way beyond that. Actually, all of Scandinavia is way beyond that.

Instead of fomenting nonexistent differences and antagonistic debate, why not embrace what they've achieved and spread the good word. Those who opposed the Republicrats' totalitarian regime of class warfare need to unite and speak with a common voice for a common good brought about through a common goal.

Let's face it, Norway kicks derriere. Their pizzas soock though. Don't order a pizza there. But the rest is fantastic. I'm from the Olden family north of Trondheim and proud to be able to call Norway my ancestral home.

People who work for a living, like construction workers and delivery men/women already excercise all day, and I think they still get sick. this is how they refuse to listen to anybody, and can easily find lazy democratic party and republican party swine to create silly insulting distractions from the facts. Actually, this is mostly the democratic party doing this, since Mutual of Obama receives a ton of money from insurance and the East hill gangs of boston the insurance capital of America.

Sorry Rasmussen, but I read your bit about voting for Bush, did accept and actually agree that Moores film was better than nothing, but if you heard what the remedies are for our failing healthcare plan here at home you would shit your pants.

So far this morning on the radio, I heard a clown with a doctorates degree, claim that both parties agree that the system is failing, then this democratic bootlicker started bringing it up that he thought the public needed to exercise more, and had his patseys from the lazy government swine camp call in and act like they had an original thought themselves. Obviously the plants had the same thought. Shuckerbea, a Republican candidate, claimed that, "If we did not like healthcare now, then just wait until the hippies start getting their drugs for free, and see how much that costs."

Actually, my wife and I are now researching our prospects for leaving the country, since beyond healthcare, these are the levels of debate our goofy country, that is very expensively and ineffectively run, has on every political subject. I have no more hope for us, since even the formally educated people I know, are so greedy and foolish that they fail to see the good in doing things fair and proper.

I accept the other faults, but there was a girl stabbed to death in my city that fails to allow me to protect myself, and fails to protect me, so it is expensiuve and stupid. they had a phoney SQUAT team vehicle that costs the city 1.5 million dollars there at the scene of the crime when the girl was killed in her apartment just 2 blocks from the precinct headquarters.

Al show and no go is how you may want to say the shows are run here. The SQUAT team is unnecessary, as is the stupid expensive command center, but most of all, none of it would be necessary if they just had social services that provided housing, food, and medical care. And if it did happen, then it would be a lot easier to find the guy and prevent it, if we did not have such waste in the government that we create more problems than we solve.

I have seen enough of this stupid monkey show, and I am old enough to appreciate peace of mind.

Tak

Robert,

You seem eager to argue? I forgot, what is my position? Oh yeah I did not take one, accept to appreciate the point the Moore made in his film.

You then start arguing that I am speaking in generalities and dont read your "facts". I dont see the point, I am not interested, I only made a vague comment about the film and some how you seem so eager to evangelize me. I concede all your "facts" and I still think it was a good film.

And as to reading facts, I stated several times, and you even acknowledged that I am an american. So who is not reading who? (You say that I am probably not a norwegian)

I like norwegians also, obviously I live and pay taxes here. Why dont you come on over? ;=)

Good luck man, I see you are very passionate and like a good debate.

Robert

Reply to rasmussen: the reason you are irritating is that you don't even read for fact(s), then reply with dull drivel.

We have no need to buy out insurance from anybody. They have been selling paper, clogging our courts fighting not to pay(75% of all cases in civil court), and mostly cutting the benefits now that the "baby-boomers" want to use them.

Actually that is the third time I had to say that, and you repeat what other governments have done in totally non-related fashion. Read, educate yourself, then come back with a bland, boiled potatoe response.

No other country in europe would allow for an entire legal system to be created for insurance companies that don't want to pay their claims.

You are so dull witted you don't even know how your own country makes health care work. Again, for those a little slow on the uptake: no other country let's you sell paper(insurance contracts) that you do not have to pay the claims for. And none would waste taxpayers time having civil courts clogged with insurance companies trying to get out of their commitments.

Read next time, then respond, or don't at all. It is that or you are just plain daft. If the shoe fits wear it. Otherwise refute these facts that are irrefutable. Excuse the spelling. Otherwise I like Norwegians, but I doubt you are one.

I will vote for Nader. He is the only honest man in the election, and he speaks to the public like we are part of the same nation.

You bragged about voting for Bush because you think he won, and the other drivel is just silliness.

We don't need even half of the police and firemen in this country. Most do nearly nothing all day, and that is statistically proven. If you need the clowns to protect you, then you should be the one who pays for their lazy asses. Same goes for our wasteful military complex. I know I don't need them, so you will have to learn that yourself.

Anybody that the British press is making silent and unknown is someone I should vote for as well.

The socialized medical systems of germany, switzerland, France, and Scandanavian countries all work very well, and there are tons of side benefits to having that peace of mind, and fair medical treatment in place. You are not able to do formal thought process or you would have realized why they do it.

If we do what I am sure we will do, and that is make a system designed to fail from the start, and do it in a very expensive way, then we will add to the problem. That is why I am concerned. If I were in Norway, I would not be worried about it, either, but I would not spew drivel about the generalities. I posted facts here about how insurance works.

Robert,

So now I am stupid? Interesting assumption and very polite I must add!

I did not say that Hillary was the solution either, only that my thinking has evolved on this issue after her own and as a conservative I should give her some credit where I was wrong. It’s this kind of competitive, posturing attitude towards debate (calling me dumb) that makes the US such a divisive culture.

My paragraphs did "say something" but perhaps you were to busy preparing a snappy comeback to read them carefully. My point is that we need to regulate doctor’s salaries (same point as you make?).

"Some essential rights need to be protected from corporate interests"

My point was that we need to think of healthcare the way we think of other essential services (fire, police, teachers, etc). I believe you are calling me stupid for agreeing with you dude. Is that because I voted for Bush?

Who I will vote for has nothing to do with it, but actually I am still a republican even if I disagree on this issue, I will vote for McCain.

What about you? What is your answer to this? You seem to disqualify everyone who posts in here (even if they agree with you) so perhaps you know the answer?
Anyway I can see that in the last few days you have been only talking back and forth with yourself so maybe you are not interested in a real dialogue? If you are then I challenge you not to respond with more insults (notice I refrained myself). I am interested to here a proposed solution.

Perhaps it is to simply abolish (or buy out) the insurance companies and shift over night as they pretty much did in the UK? Or maybe we contract them or regulate them? Any fair or practical solution needs to secure the legal rights of the stockholders in these companies, but result in a federal or state run system (IMHO).

And who will you vote for?

Robert

Reply to rasmussen:

Does this mean that you were dumb enough to vote for Bush, and you are also dumb enough to not be able to realize that Hillary and bill have been in our government for a long time, and still have no plan on health care?

I was in Norway in the early 1980's and it did not make me so stupid that I could not recognize a liar or two when I saw them.

The people who buy and sell our politicians are not going to relinquish the insurance premiums they use to steal from Americans.

The trial lawyers love it that we have courts full of cases which are nothing more than insurance companies not wanting to honor the contracts/claims that they agreed to pay.

To make socialized medicine work, you have to regulate and control doctor's salaries, and get the do nothing insurance companies out of the most lucrative do nothing part of our health care.

That is how you solve it there, champ. Not by writing more paragraphs that say nothing.
Also, don't live in one country and vote in another. It makes you look like you are hiding from your mistakes. At least you admit to voting for an idiot.

Now, I imagine you intend to vote for another equally idiotic clown like Mutual of Obama.

Interesting discussion that seems to have gotten a little hostile and that is probably why we won’t ever fix this. Take off your agenda for a moment and consider the issue before you bash people with your agenda.

I am an American living in Norway for 7 years now. As a Republican who voted for Bush, I must admit that Moore has made a very strong argument. And I owe Hilary some level of respect for raising this issue many years ago. When I think about which society I want for my children, it is not a difficult choice today. And that is a good litmus test. Which society would you want for your children?

I think if we were all very honest we would learn something from Norway. One point I liked in the film is that Americans are not afraid of "socialized fire departments", or "socialized police departments" but a sympathetic consideration of "socialized medicine" turns us into Pinko liberals!

As a conservative, I can guarantee that some of you are already judging me as a turncoat with Stockholm syndrome ;=) But I dare you to step back and think about it. Those I know who are the most overtaxed are those who complain the least about it. Take a look at the Danes, they pay way more than Norway but are amongst the most content taxpayers (cause or effect, I don’t know). But isn’t it also about what you get for your money not simply how much you pay?

Although I think that Fredrick was a little short-sighted on his judgment of the US (at least I feel that Californians (where I come from) are as literate as Norwegians), I applaud his clarification of life in Norway. He is dead-on accurate with what he says regarding Norwegian costs-benifits, and it’s not funded by the Oil fund, we pay for it with our taxes and for the most part we are happy to do so. According to the World Bank PPP (purchasing power parity), the average Norwegian life costs 37 % more than the average Americans. So much for “free” right? However the average Norwegian earns 56% more pay! Hmm, sounds like a proposition to think about. Maybe it pays to take care of each other instead of incarcerate eachother?

So what is the difference between socialized fire departments and healthcare? Corporate interest! Already the US has opened the door to corporate law enforcement and prison populations have exploded as incarceration becomes big business also. I am a capitalist (even if you question that now), but I understand the limits of profit-driven governance. Some "essential rights" need to be protected from corporate interests, even if not just to protect the corporations from themselves.

To me this was the point of the film.

If you are waiting for the media clowns to tell you this, or the bought and paid for univesities to educate you on this, then you are just plain fucken stupid. It is funny that as obvoious as it should be, you people cannot figure it out that the chain of people that allowed Moore to get his videos marketed through them, would never have let even one video see the light of day if he told you just how corrupt this system is.

Start thinking or you will lose everything you own to this corruption.

I will explain how corrupt insurance is in the USA, and begin by saying that there is absolutely no federal regulation of insurance(no laws).The politicians in the Dem and Repube camps all take campaign bribes to not regulate them effectively in every state. Almost all judges receive campaign contributions to make sure insurance companies don't have to pay the claims that they agreed to when they took your premiums. And some people are so dumb that they keep electing the two party system in to keep it this way. Right Josh. Republicans can't read law, history, or anything else that pertains to fact.

Here goes for the last time: Let's say you want a medical or dental procedure done. If it is billed at $4000.00, and your copay is 20%, then you must first pay $800.00(20% of 4000 is 800 for you Josh).

So what many idiots in the United States think that insurance pays the other 80% or $3200.00, but they do not. They actually pay about 1.4 times as much as you did(on average), because they have told the hospitals, your employer, your policy personel that if they want British insurance money for real, not just promises on paper, they will have to accept that or not be a provider for that medical insurance. Remember that med insurance always has limitations on where you can use it, and all of the places where your medical insurance is able to be used pay a minimum of $1000.00 per month, so they can buy you as a patient, more or less, from the insurance companies.

Having trouble following here Josh?

Now, your employers pay these thieves that buy your politicians(both parties obviously, but moreso the Dems) a premium on your behalf every month, so after the doctor pays insurance, you pay 20% of a totally arbitrary and capricious number($4000.00 in this example), and your employer pays part or all of your premium(s), then the insurance is out nothing, and even makes money off of doing almost nothing useful in this process.

Even you Josh, should be able to figure out that I am not even counting that weekly charge they have on your gross income for family plans, eyecare, the yearly deductable, etc. etc. etc., because I realize that when you get confused you call everything socialist.

So what is the problem? It looks like the media that gts advertising money from these thieves, the polticians that get their campaigns paid fr by these thieves, and the businesses that get cheap labor should be happy, and the British underwritten/re-insured get huge profits with absolutely not spending a dime of their money, except for advertising and buying politicians with.

The problem is similar to the problem with a large wasteful government. Corporations don't think that these thieves are worth paying for, so the entire burden to paying for worthless useless government workers and worthless useless insurance trash gets shifted to those people dumb enough to think our government does anything for us, and are equally dumb enough to think insurance loses money on anything. Josh, you probably think insurance loses money, when it is virtually impossible for that to happen, and quite the oposite, they don't even pay what they claim they pay.

We have more government employees per capita than any of the western European countries(Britain is not civilized, so I don't count that imbred trash as part of Europe.

If we have all of this near useless government doing nothing in return for us on federal, local, and state levels,insurance that is totally corrupt, politicians on the take with "cradle to grave total coverage", and all of this almost totally and entirely benefitting England(another nation for those geographically challenged like Josh is), then that is absolutely no resemblance of the Western European countries "socialist" system.

The piece of shit fat swine Moore has willfully ignored this corruption, and got paid well by certain people in the media camp not to tell you this.

Grow up and read for yourselves and get a calculator before you run down the streets claiming that our government is not corrupt and manipulating our health for their benefit. A thief is a thief no matter how many media outlets they control.

Most Europeans know, if not at least intuitively, how corrupt our government is, but on occasion one gets permafrost on their brain.

Reply to Trulte:

You must not have read the story about the paraplegic that was propped up against the dumpster in back of the Episcopalian hospital in Los Angeles because he had no medical insurance.

I would have to assume that if he could have run to the airport and could have become a Norwegian citizen he would have.

Many Republicans in this country are Episcopalians, and attend or did attend private Episcopalian colleges that do not let local police onto the campuses to extract money from and foul the criminal records of some of our future politicians, so underage drinking is tolerated and goes unreported. As do many other campus crimes that render others unelectable.

Most forienors don't have a clue just how corrupt and rotten this country is.

Get a clue, Trulte.

true socialism at work.....

ups I gave the impression that I didnt work due to my arthritis. I do work now, part time. The good medicine work. An american medicine by the way (most is). I don`t earn much more because they reduce my "sick-money" due to the amount of work I do. But the salary is higher pr. hour so I get some out of it. But I am happy to work again. Staying at home and not socialise with others, use my education and knowledge, not contributing back to the society does not feel good and it is embarrasing because it is ecpected that you work. It felt like everybody asked about my work while I was too sick to work and waited to get into the hospital. I never knew what to say. Good or bad? ;)

About the free public (and very nice) universities... They do take foreign students. And there are ways to live cheaper ;)

OOOH must tell.. I drink water straight from the sink. It is cleaner than the bottles you buy in the store. Proud of that :D

OOOH I see that the discussion is heated here. Much due to Fredrik who is making a glam vision of norway. And this video looked a bit to glam too.. Very.

He mentioned that education is free. Did he mention that the cost of living is huge? Yeah. For that you must get a loan. The governement has a "bank for students" where you can get loan, and the rent is like in the ordinary bank.
Some choose private schools, because it is not enough money spendt on maintenance and books and so on. I remember some pretty old history books..

The governement does not own everything. That would be communism. We are not.

Health care is free, or you pay something called "egenandel". A part of the cost set by the governement. When you passed a sertained sum you can get the money you pay OVER this sum back, within the same year. After new year you start over again.

There are too much work (you read right). So we have a lot of work-imigrants. There are not enough people here, although imigration has increased.

The prisons are overfilled and convicted have too wait to get in(not the hardest criminals). The one you saw in the video is the one and only. A discussed program that shows good results. Prisoners CAN apply to stay there, but few is approoved. They must have shown during their time in prison that they are willing and capable to start a new life as a good citizen. Most prisoners can only dream..

Back to healt care.. I gor sick with arthritis, and had to wait in 1,5 year before i got to meet a revmatologist. Then I had to argue so I could get examined properly then I had to wait another 1,5 year before I coud argue to get a medicine that worked. I am lucky I got it. But it is free. Everyone has to have their own public doctor (dont know the english name of it) I just called mine to get an appointement. The good doctor could see me in two month. There are not enough doctors (or marketers og engineers og contractors or..)

And in the video it was sunny. Well, I live in the coast.. Here it is rain. Rain all the time. Also in the winter. It snowed for the first time here this winter yesterday, and today it is all gone. Last summer I tried to paint a fence but it started to rain every time I tried.

Moore said something about sending people to sunnier places if you are sick. That is for people with reumatism. (Did I mention the weather?) I looked in to that since I have heavy arthritis. But the cost (have to pay something) showed me that it was cheaper to travel like others do. And I could travel where I choosed myself. That can be cheap off-season. Of course with the health-travel there are programs to follow and training. And if I tried to get one of those travels I am pretty sure I would get a no for an answer.

But therefore we love the sunny days even more. And even if I had to wait for 1,5 year to see a revmatologist I didn`t have to pay much. Small change really. And the good and very ecspensive medisine I now have is free. Since I lost my job after I got sick I still get money every month. I won`t get rich or afford a pretty car but I afford roof over my head, internet and food on the table. And when I get better again there are plenty of jobs to apply to. I have higher education (that I will pay for in many years to come)Great to live here!!

Reply to Roger:
We are not going to make oil public, although we gasoline consumers pay nearly as much for it as those countries that don't have privatized oil.

Making ouil profits public profits is just crazy talk in America, except for Chavez in Venezuala. except in that America.

A corrupt government is the problem. Not whether or not a government provides laws and services needed to run a viable and productive, fair, society. Get rid of the corruption and BS lawmaking, and you can do whatever else you like. Problem is really in all of the expensive thieving going on. By the government. Both parties.

America's problems are so simple to solve. But when you have populace that simply wants their country to do everything for it and take care of its every need, you cannot solve the problem.Under those demands, the problems only get worse. Government is not the solution, it is part of the problem.
If we put our elected leaders on a strict budget, cut all the earmarks out (like the Alaska bridge to no where), you'd be amazed how much money would be flowing through our coffers.

But most of you people want the government to coddle you from birth to death. Anytime you expect the government to care for your every need, you lose so much. Too bad most of you have no clue how good life could be if you only held your elected leaders to some financial discipline .

Reply to Roger:

Answer to #1, #2, and #3: Just go to the CIA Factbook websight, and even somebody who eats potatoes with salt on them(albeit still probably too spicey for him) can see that we have the income to support a socialized medical system.

I thought I made that clear.

My other point would be that having a closed society that does not allow others in, may be detrimental to a culture, since you are exposed to less diverse deseases for your auto-immune response to develop accute limitations to these deseases.

You have not been here long enough to even imagine the struggle most Americans have gone through to not have good medical care. this place was run pretty rugged for most families, just to have you come here and not realize that it created a lot of wealth that did not benefit the workers.

Use your real full name too please, since otherwise you are just another phoney piece of shit. Also, I have seen Norwegians fight before, and slapping doesn't impress me.

Reply to Robert Kunferman,

Were you really replying to me? I didn't see any relevance in your post to what I was talking about. I had only three points. Try to focus, I'll keep it simple with only one sentence each:

1. Norway sucks oil out of the ground and uses it to pay for wonderful social programs that lifts the overall standard of living for ALL its citizens.

2. Norway has a society with predictable and limited medical problems due to the fact that they are a mono-culture.

3. Michael Moore is not honest about item one and two above.

If you can't respond to my comments then don't say you're responding to me.

Reply to the rest of you 'Mericanns:
If you need magazines, and even worse, web-based bullshit to justify your opinions on anything, then you are outright stupid. Especially, since you are not even using your real full names(the sign of a coward afraid of everything including your bosses).

This month's New York Times [monthly]Magazine has an article about how most of the world views our system versus the European's. It is a magazine, but their writers are thorough, and less full of shit than most other pubelichations.

Next thing you know, you will all be trying to compare working medical systems to Iraq and afghanistan's fledgling systems, and wondering why your insurance didn't pay your bill here at home. You all have yet to have a serious enough medical bill to have learned your lesson, and worse yet, have no imagination beyond your next birthday and next 20/20 news report for fifth graders and idiots.

Even our lousey government(both parties)admits the system is in a failed state, yet you fools keep trying to say it works because you fear change. I paid for years and used none of it, so who is counting that into the equation?

Grow a pair or go back to where ever it is you crawled out from under, because we have enough cowards and dolts in this country for uncle swine to make it easy for them to steal from us.

You spineless fools must like paying for them to be taken care of from "cradle to grave", but cannot figure out why that is. Those of you already in Unkle Swine's camp, well, just go back to sleep and go to the doctor again tommorro so you can miss some more hours at work. Nobody misses you anyway.

Run!!! There is a spider under your boss's desk.

Reply to roger:

I guess you are saying that you know enough about macro economics to claim that we here in the US cannot afford medical care for our citizens? That is far from the mark or kroner.

Every country has income generating natural resources, so you only need go to the CIA Factbook on the web to learn how rich each one is.

It is really a philosophical difference in how you treat your citizens at a minimum standard, and theirs is to respect and take care of them. Not wait until an epidemic breaks out, then force tainted medicine and vaccines onto them(sorry, but that day has and is again coming).

If you want to see working healthcare plans just look at any European country, not counting the snaggle-toothed Britsh imbreds either. No need to compare to Canada, since theirs is insurance based and in its infancy. Most of those statistics are old too, and very selective to make canada's system look like it is failing. they pay about $120.00 per six months for full coverage including eye care. This is no worse of a plan than any of you have. I don't see doctors, except for emergencies and legal neccessity, so I have paid for nothing my entire life, into indurance.

Reply to walls of text:
INTERNET SERIOUS BUSINESS
DERP DERP DERP DERP DERP

It's interesting to compare costs and types of surgery in different healthcare systems a bit more methodically than in Sicko. Google Answers did a nice write-up of surgery in Canada, with a particular emphasis on costs compared to the US:

Surgery Costs in US and Canada

It's worth a look, if you're interested in knowing a bit more about how healthcare operates in different countries.

I am a first generation American, my parents moved here from Norway in 1950. I visit my family often in Norway and we are close.

Michael Moore's representation of Norway is accurate, but since the premise is to compare to the US, he has neglected some critical facts that make Norway what it is today.

1. Their vast oil holdings are used to support their generous social programs of vacation/maternity leave, retirement pay, health care, etc. Norway is an OPEC nation. Norway actually pulls their oil out of the ground (North Sea), while in the US we are not allowed to, due to environmental fears. These huge oil reserves support a tiny nation of only 4 Million people. Their population has remained consistent for at least 10 years. Norway has far superior environmental credentials than the US, but they have no problem pulling oil out of the ground and contributing to an industry that generates greenhouse gases. An odd contrast to the US. They suffer no guilt over this and no one takes them to task. I commend Norway for using its rich natural recourses to allow a high standard living for all residents, not only a few. This is not so in the oil-rich Arab nations.

2. Norway is a mono culture. Look at the video again. You will not see diversity. In the early 80's they imported a number of Pakistani refugees, but put a stop to it when crime rates increased. They have a very restrictive immigration policy, unlike the US that has a vast array of cultures. Norway's health care problems are predicable and manageable since everyone has evolved from a similar diet, gene pool, environmental influence, etc.

Michael Moore would be credible if he was more forthcoming with facts that lead to greater understanding of why a country like Norway can afford the luxury of a socialistic society.

Reply to Bart Perez:

You must know that comparing apples to oranges doesn't work. Add up you state, local, and federal taxes, not to mention all of your user fees, and you will exceed 50%.

The real difference in Norway is that they actually get something in return for their tax dollars. I have yet to see what I get.

Reply to Daniel:
You now misspelled the word use.
I agree, people who have no ability to find and analyze facts throw insults, similar to the insulting diatribe you have laid on me here.

I realize that I make a lot of women wet.
Please try to control your frustration(s). If you quit that silly pill counting job the clowns bestowed upon you, then you can get out and find some muscular man to cuddle with. Money can't replace that, so don't blame me for you spending too much time learning how to count pills, to the point that you have nothing better to do.

Sorry, but whoever certified you as smart and honest, obviously dropped the ball.

I am warning you, though. My member is smaller than average, but I make up for it in diameter.

Robert: you’re the most annoying person I’ve ever met. Your arguing style is actually no style. You don’t answer the issues put in front of you and make up strange stories You try to be offensive and actually comes out pathetic. You have the mind of a three year old. People that had no valid arguments use insults, sarcasm or I’ll answer line by line to prove my point.

You misspelled world.
I did not used the word “world” at all

Also, I had to explain to you what Frederik stated.
Yes???????

Just because you have done a lot of drugs, doesn't mean that you are an expert on anything.
Great line!!!! Is this meant to be an insult or you are trying to be witty? You failed in both counts!!!!

If you are so polite and rational, why are you taking your greed motivated frustrations out on our guest visiting from Norway?
Come again? Helloooooo. Anybody there?

Evidently, you don't want your money back for your waste of money on your education.
If you were a rational character, I’ll send you my CV

Let me guess, you are a licensed pill counter. Wow!
Are pill counter licensed? I didn’t know. Is this supposed to be witty too?

You need to use your full name, or you are just another BS-Artist on here trying to hide your political opinions under a false personality.
I wouldn’t have a problem to put my full name, but really it doesn’t matter. Read your sentence again. It doesn’t make any sense. You are a seriously sick puppy

I travel more than you read, although that probably isn't saying much.
I have platinum in two airlines for making more than two million miles of air travel.. About reading, I HOPE YOU READ ONE OF MY BOOKS.

Robert, sadly this will be my last communication with you. I don’t like wasting my time. So, I expect you will become very abusive in your response to this. Picture me smiling reading your ugly piece, knowing I am under your skin. I can see you coming to this site, day after day lounging for my response to continue this nonsense, to no avail.

Thats sound interesting, but did Michael Moore
tell you that average incomes tax rate is about
//////// 50% //////// ?

Reply to Daniel:

You misspelled world.

Also, I had to explain to you what Frederik stated.

Just because you have done a lot of drugs, doesn't mean that you are an expert on anything.

If you are so polite and rational, why are you taking your greed motivated frustrations out on our guest visiting from Norway?

Evidently, you don't want your money back for your waste of money on your education.

Let me guess, you are a licensed pill counter. Wow!

You need to use your full name, or you are just another BS-Artist on here trying to hide your political opinions under a false personality.

I travel more than you read, although that probably isn't saying much.

I think Michael Moore should move to Norway, that way if gets pregnant he can get 1 yr. paid maternity.

Robert:
You are an uneducated fool that confuse dialog with diatribe and offensive comments. Besides you are a bigot!!!!!! I’m not associated with the Federal Government in any way or shape. I have no idea how you came up with the idea of me being a religious freak, I am an agnostic. I guess you have a set idea that anybody who opposes your liberal views and you stereotype them the usual liberal fashion. By the way, Daniel is my real name. If you want to make a point, discuss it in a civilized manner. Slurs are not legitimate arguing points; it only shows the lack of legitimate points. You choose to dismiss others opinions by using vulgar language. As a person versed in medical knowledge, I suggest you take appropriate medication. Coprololia is not an accepted language and only defines sick minds. By the way, if you are an American, you are proving your own point of the Americans being uneducated. Your English is atrocious.
Lighten up, we exchanging ideas, or at least I am. I don’t want to ram my beliefs in your narrow mind. Accept diversity and others peoples opinion. You don’t own the truth.

Reply to Costello: I disagree with Frederik claiming that our country is run by homosexual men making worship to Muluch. We are run by British homosexuals making worship to South London economic Muluch. Go figure. Now, costello and Daniel should deny having any affiliation to our federal government before they continue to post on here.

Reply to costello:

Where is Elvis, nitwit??

OK, I just took from what Frederik said and put quotes around it, told you that it was from Frederik, and you are so ignorant and stupid, that yopu thought I said it, so I will now pick a few quotes at a time, so you don't have to wear your finger out trying, TRYING, to read.

First off you just proved this beyond a reasonable doubt: from Frederik for those two slow to know what quotes are,"The US has an illiterate, poorly-educated population with a large diffentiation between the high a low classes..." I can rest my case on that point, obviously.

I could refer you to several books there, you head up the ass idiot, but I rather doubt you could read them. Other than that, you know nothing about who controls your government.

What has America discoverred lately? that they can have a Constitution and ignore all of it, while protecting big business from lawsuits.
What else has been discovered by us, that is of any significance?? let's hear it, because you have never read one Journal or anything beyond a newspaper or magazine, and neither has your troll friend that