"America is the only country which goes to great lengths to avoid civilian casualities. You ask "What do we do about them?" Well...for starters the rape and torture rooms have been shut"

From the post by Razio,Raz whatever this pea-brain is called..: America goes to great lengths to avoid civilian casualties??? What are drinking? Smoking? Inhaling? Ingesting too much drivel from nuts like O'Reilly, Hannity & Colmes, Coulter and the rest? Your country used cluster bombs in Iraqi towns and villages with absolutely no regard for human life. White phosphorus and depleted uranium was used in Fallujah. DU was also used in the first Gulf War in 1991.

Rather than relying on American "News" sources why don't you take a little trip to Iraq to see for yourself? Or try to get some unbiased REAL news from the BBC or the CBC?

As far as the comment - "the rape and torture rooms have been shut" ... Where? You seem to be privy to info no one else has! Did your country shut those and open new ones? Maybe at Abu Ghraib,Guantanamo,Diego Garcia and undisclosed rendition sites spread over the globe?

Raz-where to begin? This war we have in Iraq has nothing to do with the fight against terrorisim.You and many others need to be reminded that the first gulf war was a direct result of Saddam Hussein's attack on Kuwait.The first Bush did the right thing and assembled a large coalition of nations to counter the threat.Most of the world was on our side.Many questioned why we didn't go all the way into Bagdad and get rid of Saddam.I recommend that you read the autobiography of General H.Norman Schwarzkopf. I'll pass on to you a direct quote from the good General:"I am certain that had we taken all of Iraq,we would have been like the dinosaur in the tar pit-we would still be there and we would be bearing all the costs of that OCCUPATION." Now since it has been proven that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 we had no buisness invaiding.The U.S. had the support of many allies in Afganistan-because that is where Bin Laden was found to be holed up.We lost that support because we strayed away from the reasons to justify sending our brave men and women in harms way.Freedom is not free is correct. If the Iraqi people wanted freedom that bad-they should have started the process themselves against their tyrannt.Now we have them at each others throats because of ethnic and religious beliefs.Thats not my idea of spreading democracy or my idea of fighting the war on terror.

Who are you accusing of butchering Iraqi people? The US Military??? America is the only country which goes to great lengths to avoid civilian casualities. You ask "What do we do about them?" Well...for starters the rape and torture rooms have been shut, Hussein is no longer in power,progress is being made in Iraq. Freedom is not FREE!! Did you see the mass graves with the bodies of tens of thousands of Iraqis? What about the 3,000+ who died on 9/11, or the Sailors who died in the USS Coles, or the bombing of the American Embassies, or the bombing of the Marine barracks and on and on. The terrorist have been handed a devestating defeat in a long hard fought battle. A defeat in which some Generals describe as "unbelievable". As the Iraqi army strengthens and the Iraqis start to put their life back together we will support them and assist anyway we can. More Iraqis than ever are starting to believe in the US effort and starting to realize we will not cut and run. We will be there for them. One thing I will never understand is that I have never heard any democrats criticizing,blaming or demeaning a terrorist in anyway. It is always "The Presidents fault", "The militaries fault",or "Americas fault" You can't find one quote condemning the terrorist. Even in your last post it is sounding like you are blaming the US for car bombs,IED's,suicide bombers giving the terrorist a pass. The terrorist were hoping we would leave,the started to see victory,they were claiming the US was defeated. They know they can't beat the US Military but break the will of the American people. They didn't count on us to fight back as hard as we did. We did. We fought back hard. The result..........Iraq is out of the paper,out of the News,out of the debates.

Looks like we both can agree that life is priceless Raz, but think in a bigger scale now. The Iraqi civilians are also human beings and they didn't sign up for any war, yet they been butchered like pigs and that includes women and children (some of whom are crippled for life, a fate worse than death). What do we do about them? About all that has been taken from them? What have they gained from this war? They've lost everything they had (and as I say that list may or may not include certain limbs). And because of what? Because of some redneck fool thousands of miles away who only thinks about money and taking revenge for his daddy.

I looked into the case of the man getting arrested for the tee-shirt. According to what I read he was part of an anti-war group and went to the local mall with his son. While at the mall he was asked to either remove his T-shirt or leave the mall. His son complied with no incident. The father refused to remove his t-shirt and was asked to leave. He was then notified by mall security that if he remains he is considered to be trespassing and subject to arrest. Local police was called and subsequently the man was charged with trespassing. You are free to wear what you want out in public. Different establishments have different dress codes and can refuse service to anybody,it has been like that for years.
As far as the troops being real human beings, that is not in doubt. The real statement should be it is a real war and not a bumper sticker and they are entitled the right to live just as much as those miners who died in the mine or the cabbie who died while getting held up or the Police Office who was shot and killed while trying to stop a robbery. It is a tragedy when anyone dies doing what they believe in or just plain doing their job. What the real tragedy is tha people are in disbelief when a soldier dies in a war. You may agree or disagree with the war but when you sign up for the military you really don't have a choice. You have to realize when to sign up for the miliary there will be a chance you will see military action. There is the possibility you may be killed while in the military. I can personally tell you I do not like war despite what you hear. I will defend the troops,I will support the troops, and I will believe in their cause. Mostly everybody I have talked to who have served in Iraq have postive things to say and have served proudly.

Activism...........

Veni Vedi Veci

Fair enough Raz, and it's the truth. If you behaved then you wouldn't be called idiots, but as I said the truth is you've been acting like mindless trolls so don't complain about the treatment you receive afterwards.

Oh I am sure that I can find more than just ONE case Raz, there were several of them back when the war was starting. That particular one happened in a mall in Texas, I'll look into it and I assure you that I will find several others as well.

And don't try to turn things around by suggesting I'm censoring your opinion and freedom of speech. You are completely entitled to your opinion, but guess what? Those guys who've died ever since the war began? They were real human beings, not toys. And they were entitled to the right to live, a right which was denied by Bush and his administration, as well as the warmongers who supported them. And hey you're offended because those people want at the least an apology for all the pain and suffering we've caused them? That's offensive to you? Having to explain to a 5 year old why he lost his limbs and both his parents because a bunch of people thousands off miles away are scared of him and his culture? I don't know what you guys do to sleep at night.

I'd say I already know that Saudis invest lots of money in the US economy, mostly oil money. And I find it odd that we went to war with Afghanistan and Iraq when most of the fundamentalists and terrorists are Saudis (including Osama).

Yes , very thoughtful. I like the part where you said ".....you're the ones who come in here calling people names" Then the next line you write".....you're nothing but idiots "
You also say ...you put guys in jail for wearing shirts saying stuff like "Just give peace a chance". Can you disclose 1 documented case where a person was jailed for that reason? Just 1 real documented case.
You also write"You supported a war, that's killed thousands of innocent people, based on false evidence and you have yet to excuse your behaviour." So what your saying is I have no right to my opinion and have to excuse myself for it.
Also, I wonder what you would say if you found out George Bush recieved $10 million dollars from the Saudis.

Diego, thanks for the thoughtful comments, we appreciate your perspective.

So all we have here now is one sided. At least Razz made somekind of arugment. Why do they bury their posts. We should all be heard. they made it interesting.Because you dont agree doesnt mean they cant post here

You speak of jokes, you speak about violating freedom of speech, you speak of insults, and dangerous folks. Do you realize you're speaking about what the politicians and the people who follow them have been doing for the past 7 years? You speak about hypocresy? How's this for hypocresy:

1-You supported a war, that's killed thousands of innocent people, based on false evidence and you have yet to excuse your behaviour.

2-You threatened, silenced, jailed, deliberately hurt, and accused those who protested against the war of sedition and treason. And all they were doing were protesting peacefully and expressing their point of view (you put guys in jail for wearing shirts saying stuff like "Just give peace a chance"). You stamped on constitutional rights and did away with anyone who thought differently and YET we're the hypocrites and dangerous ones? No my friends, it's you.

3-You complain about insults and getting your posts buried yet you're the ones who come in here calling people names and acting high and mighty:"Democrats do as I say, not as I do". You write pointless posts that do prove you're nothing but idiots who have the indecency of ignoring other people's posts and then cry out in indignation because nobody gives you any attention :"(yawn)zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz". Anyone would be bothered by such a high caliber of stubborn idiots, would they not? It's no different than having a homeless drunk constantly yelling insults at you while chuking his crap all over the place. You really act like trolls.

4-Finally, you say leftists should never gain power and that they're wrong and such. Well let me tell you something here lads, as you may have realized from my name (because at least I have the guts and decency of posting with my real name and letting people know who's writting this) I wasn't born in America. From my experience all what you are labelling as "left-wing thoughts and ideas" aren't really left at all. They're still actually right-wing progressive ideas that'd help your country and its people move forward and give equal opportunities to everyone without discriminatio. Yet you guys write them off and make fun of them simply because you've been brainwashed by the people in high places and who don't want to lose their privileges and illicitly earned money. Think about your behaviour a bit before accusing people randomly.

The key here on this whole site is Left and Right both suck, supposedly different sides but when they both get done it's dictatorshipist Fascism, it's our side is right, your side is wrong, so we will tell you what to think... or else. Different exits, same destination, government rule.

(yawn)ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

1. Not in the very least, it isn't. Going to war with innocent countries to protect the economic interests of the big corporations and corrupt politicians here in America is not only going to gain us the hatred of other nations, but it is also going to cause more and more terrorist attacks that we can possibly handle. Tbe world is getting tired of our crap, those are the reasons behind the terrorist attacks, not some damn "jihad". So in a way we can say we "had it coming".

2. No, it's just some excuse to extract oil in order to benefit the rich companies in America. Even if it was, 655,000 civilian deaths prove that America has messed up big time in Iraq. Other studies claim that the civilian casualties might be up to 1.2 million whereas the white house insists it's only at 78,000.

3. Never in my lifetime. Wars are mostly preached by the rich and fought by the poor. In the Civil War the South fought to mantain slavery solely because their economy was dependant on it. However only a small minority owned 80% of the slaves, whereas the vast majority would have one slave at the most which whom they would work the fields in order to survive. These white folks were looked down upon by the rich plantation owners and treated just slightly better than black people. And even though they had nothing to gain from the war, they were the ones who fought it while plantation owners sat on their couch laughing their ass off at their stupidity. It is the same now while the rich people (FOX & corrupt politicians) try to convince the common people to fight their wars and sacrifice their lives in order to preserve their abusive lifestyle. Conservatives hear me out, you are not on THEIR team. You're just being USED, only big companies and rich people are allowed to belong to the elite, you're just their ways of accomplishing their goals.

4. No, and no. Their goal as I said before is to extract oil in order to enrichen big oil companies in the US and the politicians they're lobbying.

5. To achieve victory US must retire from Iraq and let them decide for themselves what to do from now on. Give them the money to repair all the damage we caused during the war so they can rebuild themselves and leave it at that. Continued US occupation is only going to piss the Iraquies off and cause more attacks.

6. Yes, it has already been reached years ago. If Iraq didn't stabilize 6 months after the War was over then it means the goals weren't achieved and the US lost. They should have changed strategies at that time but they didn't, it's hopeless.

7. Not at all, I would look for a second opinion, if the problem persists I'd give up on the car.

8. No, I am not the tool of corrupt and evil people.

9. Not unless they're stupid or misinformed. Soldiers are not as "honorable" as they seem, some of them do it because they enjoy killing and bullying and because they didn't seem to think education was important. Of course there are good soldiers, but they should have realized by now that things at home are rotten and want to go back.

10. No, the most effective way to fight terrorism is to spread freedom and equality throughout the world. The terrorists are not "evil people", they are people who have been screaming for their rights for a very long time and who were constantly ignored. So they just decided to take up the guns and make themselves heard. If you heard them out and heard what they had to say we wouldn't need to fight and we could resolve things like peaceful human beings.

Yes DJK, let's hear it? Do you only want liberal views on this site?

Democrats, "Do as I say, not as I do."

Who wants to hear from trolls anyway. Who the fuck needs them. They deserved to be buried

To DJK:

Please explain to me why you censor and hide posts with different opinions? Is not a blog a place people can express views, no matter how different than your own w/o fear of what you are doing?

You cheapen and defeat your cause when you do this. As a conservative, who attempts to express views w/o 4 letter expletives, I am surprised that you would do this. I've also noticed that 'other' users (media guy, middle class, etc)
no longer post here, only Grayson and Raz seem to 'stick' around for the abuse.

Do you only want your opinions here? If that is the case, state it and I will go some where else to see what the 'left' is up to.

Stupid fucking trolls. Get the fuck lost.

I find the trolls that post on this site have gotten rather unfair and completely unbalanced.

yah! a gloryoso example of the gop/rightie repugnuts. i hope he keeps doin' it, lets everyone see what a fool child he is. i like it!!!

Isn't there some way to block access to this animal who has no obvious, useful contribution to make to this site AND all of mankind? Or even removing the lines of nothingness??

stop being a immature prick

ya lol liberal radio died....then liberal TV and Internet was born lol you guys can keep the radio

1. No, the war isn't vital. It is however a threat to our national Security. (to answer the draft question, no I do not advocate a draft)

2. No, the war is a drain on our resources and military, there by weakening it it innumeral ways.

3. I answered no, and I am serving in the military.

4. The goal was to give a chance for political consolidation in Iraq for the government there. No, it isnt working.

5. Victory as defined can not be achieved. Our original goal was to eliminate a source of WMD's and a safe haven for terrorists. But there were no WMD's, and it has now become the focal point of the terrorists rallying call.

6. That chance was lost in mid to late 2003 with the disbanding of the military are civil service structure.

7. no, but then again, there are more than 2 mechanics to choose from in my town.

8. An unfair question as no one is asked to do that in partucular, but only in the abstract when enlisting in the military.

9. The answer is no. We get some more money in tax relief and some extra pay, but deployments? again, a rhetorical question. But we enlisted, it's not our choice when or where we deploy.

10. 3 Billion a week maybe, but not in Iraq. The threats are more widespread.

whats up with this site??? some moron screamin free speech? some psycho ronnie Paul libertardian or what? whats your cause son?

HOOAH
I’ve started a more aggressive approach to getting rid of troll comments on this blog. If they were from people who respectfully wanted to disagree and have a discussion, I’d respect that. But people like grayson and raz don’t. All their comments do is drag discussions into things that are completely off topic and kill the threads. It’s hard for people not to want to respond to or debunk their claims, which is admirable, but I really don’t want our discussions dictated by trolls and what THEY want to talk about. Imagine the blog is like a group of people trying to have a discussion about a subject, but a loudmouth asshole keeps coming in and saying things that are so outrageous, wrong, and insulting that the people in the group feel they have to address him. That’s really not what I want our threads to be, so I’d rather just toss the loudmouth out. Trolls like grayson and raz are not here to learn or discuss anything. They’re here to be pests. However, I very much respect your opinion on this, and i hope you know that this was not a decision I take lightly. I've had to put up with their trolling long enough. I’m just trying to keep the place clean.

John Ehrenfeld’s Quiz #1 Grade +11

1. +1
2. +1
3. +1
4. +1
5. +2 (extra point for identifying a misleading question, which has since been updated)
6. +1
7. +1
8. +1
9. +1
10. +1

Grayson, I'll confess that I do have a (perhaps stereotypical) impression that many among the Far Right have a persecution complex and when they are not successful at bullyingothers, they play the victim.

Rather than whining about how "the Left" disrespects you and "can't argue their points," might I suggest you take your own advice: Refrain from generalized disparaging accusations and stick to *your* arguments.

Or, better yet, listen to the other side and risk changing your mind to a better outlook. ;-)

I used to be a Far-Right neoconservative ... until I took the advice I just gave you.