yawn - finito

How about earlier when you were ordering me to shut up? Did YOU meet your match then ?
Yes the attack on Pearl Harbour was the trigger for American public support for the US to enter WW 2. Father of US liberalism? God,you guys have been had for decades! What a fantasy world they have created..
Yes, Hawaii was taken by force - much like the mainland was.
Me, get an education? Can you find your home state on a blank US map?
Conspiracy theories? Do you believe in evolution or creation? The big-bang theory? If you do,why do you? They are theories after all..
We have an inferiority complex and we are loved the world over. I can live with that. You guys have a superiority complex and are hated the world over. I'll choose the former, thank you.

Ooooh you really got me...an ignoramus....stupid....it's so typical when someone meets their intellectual match that's what the conversation becomes. I understand; it's the inferiority complex and bitterness Canadians have always felt. We allowed the attack on Pearl Harbor? Oh, so FDR the father of American liberalism allowed us to be attacked and for so many to die? Stolen land? LOL That's a new one. If the United States was not involved in WWll we all speak German, that is not debatable. If Canada remained neutral, so what! The allies would have lost?

You really should get an education and stop flailing away holding on to freakoid conspiracy theories. Dismissed.

Whether you're John,Spig or whatever you choose to hide behind you're still the same ignoramus.
Canada didn't save the world from fascism in WW 2? Two years after the war started, YOUR government allowed the attack on Pearl Harbour (stolen native Hawaiain land)to happen (they had already cracked the Japanese code and THEY KNEW it was underway) The attack triggered American support for that war which they were against prior to the attack.(So there is precedent for 9/11).
Canada was in WW 2 from its' inception and 45,000 soldiers were lost. So learn some history. The US did not win the war. It was a combined effort.
And you claimed the US saved the world from fascism? What exactly is it practising right NOW in your OWN goddamn country? Its' own brand?
Utter unbelievable how stupid you are!!

My name isn't Jhon by the way and you are just another American hater. Does loving one's country make one Dick Cheney? American's love their country and part of expressing that love is to hold it to account and endeavoring to make it better. No Canada didn't do that and Canada also didn't save the world from facism in WW2 did it? We never invaded Canada or China or Africa did we.

How's Steven Harper doing up there? If you hate us so much don't visit, don't pay attention. mind your own business.

"you can think whatever you want but it's rather irrelevent."

You sound like Cheney himself with that comment John. Typically, the average American thinks the same way and the arrogance is palpable. Stop trying your lame-duck attempts to deflect attention away from the real issues.

George Bush might gone in a few months you say...does the US immediately wipe the slate clean and stop trying to be the worlds' police? Are all the lobbyists going to disappear from Washinton? The corruption? The nefarious dealings? You DO live in a bubble! Does Canada do that? When last did an African state, Canada or China invade the US to protect their national interests? To topple a democratically elected government? What manner of idiot are you,anyway?

No it isn't. You don't vote here, you aren't a citizen here, you can think whatever you want but it's rather irrelevent. George Bush is gone in a few months; from what I understand your Bush clone Harper is still going to be in office wreaking reactionary havoc; where is the no-confidence vote? I think you better pay attention to your own garbage. What do you have to say about China by the way? Or North Korea? Or the despotic regimes in Africa? From what I understand Canada is a major polluter; mining, cattle, etc. Clean up your own house.

You will get no argument from me about past sins of this country; but why don't you spew forth the good as well.

This is from your response to me John:

"Why don't you worry about the right-wing facist Steven Harper and not so much about what is going on in this country. It's not really your concern is it"

What this clearly demonstrates is the depth (or lack of) your intellect. What happens in the US is everyones' concern on this planet. Our survival is at stake. You currently have a criminal cabal that is running roughshod all over the planet. Your goddamn country has invaded and intervened in over 120 countries going back more than 100 years and acts as though it is a paragon of virtue. It is a capitalist vulture and blood- sucker. Its' silver bullet is nigh! And it IS my damn business you intellectual midget!

Well laddy, unfortunately we aren't talking football here, or what pint is best. I don't really give a damn what humbrage one takes; stupidity is stupidity and in politics and world affairs the like people often suffer and die because of stupidity. You will have to esxcuse me if I find that more offensive than my comments to anonmymous people on a blog and you may find bollocks a wee bit more charming; whatever blows your tartan kilt up. Deal with it.

And another thing my friend - we are all friends here.

I will retort to the name calling from here on as I have allways done (dissregard last 2 posts), with friendly replies and courtious counterviews. You may even pause from time to time with the predictable rudeness and let my views in, I talk a lot of crap but from time to time a wee item of interest slips through.

Perfect example : A lot of what you say is Bollocks, but I try to understand where you are coming from, and guess what happened the other day - you changed one of my most entrenched views - all my life I dissmissed gun owners as people who grew up to closs to nuclear power stations. Now I am begining to understand, thanks to your argument! Thanks pal

As for the bollocks that you type, I wont call you names for it - thats to easy, you want a challenge - return crazy talk with - 'nice point pig have you ever considered bla bla bla...', now thats hard, your reward - a coversation without the abrupt distractions of 'you stupid, me clever'

p.s

. 0630 hrs here and the sun is coming up over the bony hills of Scotland and I am going to work. Have a nice day

P.S
. The barnyard pig is the second most intlegent mammal, they are concious of self like us, sqid, dolfins/wales some apes and that is about it - oh, and they are tasty.

Just as I post the last comment - hey presto!! - S-Pig has just beat me. Right in there with another dissmissal of a blogger for having conflicting views - absolutely no purpose whatsoever. Unless you are S-Pigs sheltered mind of miraculis, rock solid, dependable, unshakable and undertested views.

.
S-Pig

Wasn't trying to start a 'our team is better than your team' argument - Just giving my opinion.

I am new to this site, but I have already noticed that you often ridicule the oposing view author, usualy with absolutes like 'stupid', 'intelegent', 'suedo intellectual' & 'dim' (just by glancing below, how many examples are there if I go back two just weeks) - do you realise that you are doing it - I mean, as a technique at stopping other arguments getting taken in and therefore risking your rock solid determinations. I've known people that do this, you see them labeling everyone they meet with derogetory titles like 'stupid' or 'dim' or whatever - once labled and catagorised and put down happyness returns - eh? s-pig? eh? isn't it just wierd how your opinions are right and others are em...what is it again...oh ye - 'stupid'.

Then again I may be wrong:

. maybe you're just rude

Why don't you worry about the right-wing facist Steven Harper and not so much about what is going on in this country. It's not really your concern is it. Enjoy your poutine tonight.

Okay, John - do your part better by going out and campaigning for Barack Obama. Just keep photos of of the Clinton iconic duo on the wall close to your desk and your heart. Urge her supporters to vote for BO. Use your writing skills to demonise McCain and the GOP. The Dems win will be assured. Hell, I'll even move to the US when that happens!

Doing my part to avoid a McCain presidency. That's all I care about politically right now.

So why did you respond? What exactly is your game?

First of all my name isn't Jhon. Second of all no one controls anyone's thoughts; that is purely pseudo-intellectual hyperbole that sounds interesting but means nothing. There is no monolithic effort to do this or do that excepting general party platforms; otherwise it's up to the individual to say and vote however they choose. I don't feel controlled, I have free will. I can read, listen and watch what I want and vote and act accordingly. Joe Biden doesn't control my thoughts, or Barney Frank, Or Harry Reid, or Ted Kennedy or John McCain for that matter. Get real.

The personality and demeanor take was in response to Sipple The Dim. Once again, I feel no need to slam Hillary Clinton. I like her; I like Obama better given the choices in this country today. I would be equally happy with either as president and . . . I SEE NO REASON SINCE OBAMA IS GOING TO WIN THE NOMINATION TO SPEW HATRED OF HILLARY AND BILL AND SEEK TO TEAR DOWN TWO POPULAR ICONS OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY! GET IT????

It's stupid, shortsighted and suicidal.

John, again you are missing the point! I was not talking about who has the worst TV junk. It was about the intent and desired result. Ever went on a vacation with kids or had a birthday party for an eight year old? You need to keep them busy, occupied and entertained til its' over. Politicians and corporations loosely cooperate in the same kind of effort with their publics. The end game is control of your thoughts, actions,and your wallets. Politicians have to ensure that people need them. If they don't, they will become irrelevant. They can't make us too happy either - we must have things to gripe about.
Iam not sure why you stuck this in - but it is worthy of a response:
"Personality, demeanor, handling attacks and character are absolutely valid criteria by which to jusge someone running for office"

I have looked at debates. Obama is calm, cool, collective. Hillary is shrill,strident and skirts around questions without answering them directly. She gets to the point of almost hyper-ventilating and had revisited issues after they had moved on to others, insisting that she has her say.
Even on that point you brought up, Obama is light-years ahead..

Yes you are wasting your time as you have nothing even remotely intelligent to say.

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You are right, I am wasting my time.

Oh well, live in hope I guess.

S-Pig - no one in Britain trusts the BBC + tabloids are comics for grown ups, the readers know that - mostly.

Oh, and I watched a couple of the debates - they were shit.

'Channel 4 News' is good, realy gets into the details of the stories and has good coverage of American politics, Iraq, corruption etc

You must be kidding! The UK is the birthplace of tabloid junk and reality tv garbage. I get Link TV, I get Al Jazeera, I get the BBC, that's a bunch of bullshit.

People are focused on the issues as are the candidates, did you watch any of the debates? Personality, demeanor, handling attacks and character are absolutely valid criteria by which to jusge someone running for office; if not more so. What a candidate "says they are going to do" before they get elected and what they do are often different.

Craig S - you're wasting your time. Mindless musings, game shows, singing and dancing contests and armchair idiots parading as experts on everything from sex to war occupy the time of Americans. Issues? What the heck is that?

.
So what???

I'am not going to get drawn in to a conversation on bowling scores, dress codes, what candidate would be more fun to drink with. It is a destraction, and quite frankly - boring.

Enough with the popularity contest, focus on the issues man. You need to take this thing more seriously.

"The last fuw weeks have not been kind to Hillary" - What has that got to do with it? What does she stand for? that is what you should be looking at.

-----

Over here in the UK on satalite tv, when we select the news icon we get a list of news channels from all over the world - from China's state national news to Al Jazera to Russian news - everything. As you scan down the list and observe the American news channels - Wow! complete BULLSHIT! Not because of the lies & ommisions (thats bad enough) but because it ain't news, its lifestyle, opinion and lobbying. My point is - ignore the bowling and the "last few weeks" has been bad for this candidate or that.

The issues man, THE ISSUES - what do they stand for?

"Behind closed doors in San Francisco, elitism’s epicenter, Barack Obama showed his elitism, attributing the emotional, spiritual and cultural values of working-class, “lunch pail” Pennsylvanians to economic woes.

The last few weeks have not been kind to Hillary, but the endless endgame has not been kind to the Wonder Boy either. Obama comes across less like a candidate in Pennsylvania than an anthropologist in Borneo.

His mother got her Ph.D. in anthropology, studying the culture of Indonesia. And as Obama has courted white, blue-collar voters in “Deer Hunter” and “Rocky” country, he has often appeared to be observing the odd habits of the colorful locals, resisting as the natives try to fatten him up like a foie gras goose, sampling Pennsylvania beer in a sports bar with his tie tight, awkwardly accepting bowling shoes as a gift from Bob Casey, examining the cheese and salami at the Italian Market here as intriguing ethnic artifacts, purchasing Utz Cheese Balls at a ShopRite in East Norriton and quizzing the women working in a chocolate factory about whether they could possibly really like the sugary doodads.

-- Maureen Dowd

.
How can you advocate a Clinton and say that you care about people dying.

Half a million died under the sanctions imposed on Iraq under Bill Clinton - that is no argument - its a FACT. That might not count to you guys because they were not Americans. The rest of the world sees them as people even if you do not.

I see this shit hole has not changed much since I was last here many months ago, aside from the fact that the leftist arguments are even more shrill and less relevant.

Dear Barrack is an elitist Jesse Jackson clone in fresh clothing. A bigot, a snob, and a dumb ass cigarette smoker.

You'd think that a guy his age would be smart enough to allow the filter in his brain to engage on occasion. He actually comes off as totally out of his league as a political animal. He isn't stupid, but holy shit he is sure an idiot.

The bloom is off the rose. Let him get the Dem nod, he's toast in the general.

We true Conservatives have no nominee. McCain sucks.

Oh please Kanuk you are a child. I have no way, it's not about me it's about how many people are going to suffer and die under a McCain presidency. I express my opinion like everyone else. It just makes no sense after a certain point to go on and on and on. We disagree so what. I went through the same thing when Nader ran and he was hailed as a working man's hero instead of the egomaniacal, narcissistic lunatic he really is. I went through the same thing with John Kerry, the worst candidate imaginable. So go ahead stick pins in me, curse at me, whatever. My progressive credentials are secure. I don't need your vaildation or any other elitist, smug, naive wannabee politico's either.

Bash away, I wear it like a badge of honor and just hope your kind doesn't cost us another election.

John- maybe the handle socialist pig is appropriate because you are actually pig-headed and stubborn rather than smart. You always have tried to bow out, exit, run away with your ball when you are not having YOUR way. Your famous line has always been: "I'm done debating this with you."
Funny thing is you are officially NOT a blogger. How many names have you functioned under in the past? It is addictive, isn't it?

Ha ha ha ha ha!!

don't matter any way, Clinton is toast.

When I hear folks try to defend her behaviour and suggest that Obama may cause the democrats the White House - do I laugh or cry?

S-Pig, what difference is it gonna make if Clinton or McCain wins - they both work for the same lobby groups, they are both gonna keep supporting BOTH occupations (WEST BANK+IRAQ) and the School of the Americas stays open. Capital One just wrote thier own Bill and she voted for it!!! - If that is 'MODERATE' you can keep it S-Pig.

Time to elect someone who represents the working class and not NAFTA/Walmart

As if you are not one-sided and blind to everything other than Obama worship. Please. I can support Obama and point out his failings and not support your vocal hatred for a liberal woman. Unfortunately, your naive perspective is shared by many, you see no other side, you think Obama is a god who can do no wrong. You call Hillary and Bill Clinton who have devoted their lives to liberal, progressive causes the devil. Shame on you. Bill Clinton was a great president and a hero to Democrats everywhere not long ago. Hillary Clinton made a noble effort on behalf of universal health care long before Obama mouthed those words. You can support Obama and not choose vocally castrate a fellow Democrat and spew hatred at the Clintons. This only empowers her supporters to not care or go elsewhere.

Obama and his wife have given McCain more ammunition than anyone; his words didn't come from Hillary's mouth. No one is debating you by the way, stop writing.

Pig -

Your one-sided blindness on this matter is hilarious. As if "Hillary Haters" are to blame. My tried and true Democratic Party loving parents said themselves that though they WOULD vote for Clinton if she won the nomination, they'd have a hard time doing it. And they aren't the only ones that feel that way. And do you know why? It's because she takes every opportunity to take the front runner of the Democratic party out at the knees. She takes every opportunity to jump on McCain's side in every argument against Obama. So I ask you - who can do more damage? Idiots that sit around pontificating on blogs, or a politician that gets national news time and wags her finger and points out all the abominable things her opponent does. She has forgotten who her TRUE opponent is - McCain. The only person making it more difficult for Democrats to win in November is Clinton. THATS the real "Nader" in this election. And stop saying you support Obama. It's getting old. You're talking out of both sides of your mouth.
Now I'M done debating you, John and whoever else you are about this topic.

I understand the truth hurts. You and your kind do great damage to the chances of a Democrat winning the White House. Hillary Clinton is a politician; she is trying to win. Do I support her? No I do not. But am I going to drink the Jim Jones kool-aid once again with naive, psedo, elists and contribute to a fractured voting base in Novemeber. Not on your life. Am I going to condemn those who do? You're damn right I am.

Read the polls and see what your Hillary hatred has wrought. Try huge numbers of her supporters who won't vote for Obama or just will stay home due to this level of hatred for her and Bill; a beloved Democrat. I'm done debating this with you.

You prefer pig, John E? The smartest animal? I thought man was...What do you want me to shut up about? Am I bothering you? Stop posting nonsense and defending the Clintons as though they are demi-gods and maybe I will shut up.

I prefer pig thank you very much. Smartest animal, capable of discerning barnyard hypocrisy and elitism. Botom line is this . . . if Hillary has lost why do you keep attacking her? Why not leave it alone if she has no shot? Why not stop attacking another Democrat; something that has never happened before on this level? You only do harm, nothing will come from your hatred of Clinton. Nothing except further division. You can't make Hillary drop out of the race . . . you can shut up though.

Kanuk - you're so right:

"Okay, Spig(aka John E)I am naive."

John E disappears and this pig shows up. Like Clark Kent and Superman, only with out the super powers.

SPig - I do apologise if I am not making sense to you. I do not go off on tangents.

"And you wonder why McCain is leading in most polls." Wake up to another reality SPig - It likely has to do more with Obama himself rather than what he says, that McCain leads in most polls"
The above is an excerpt from a comment I made below 1 day ago...it will partly explain why McCain is (presumably)ahead in most polls. I haven't seen any polls - so tell me...how does Hillary do VS Mccain? In polls I have seen, Obama does much better with white female voters than white male voters generally...even within the Democratic core. Now, think about this...how would white, male GOP or even white, male DEM (Hillary) supporters react to an Obama presidency?

At the back of your mind remember that at one time even WHITE women were not allowed to vote. The opportunity for all black voters came much later. This job is the top one in the country. Do you think that the glass ceiling has been removed for white women in the US? No it hasn't. For people of colour that ceiling has been made of concrete. It is still a male(white) dominated society. The old boys club rules. Remarkable strides have been made by blacks and people of colour. Question is, is it enough?

Why, do you think Bill Clinton was presenting his wife as first choice for President with her GOP opponent as the peoples' second choice? And praising him to boot!

Kanuk you make less and less sense all the time. I am not aka anyone; deal with what I say instead of going off on tangents. You never do. Explain to me why McCain a Bush clone is ahead in most polls? Hmmm? Explain that.

Hey Royster - try to pay attention ok. I NEVER said the problem with Obama's comment was the "bitter" part. Of course people are bitter. The problem is that he said they are religious and own guns BECAUSE they are bitter. Discounting two hundred years of cultural attachment to their religion and guns? GET IT??

Okay, Spig(aka John E)I am naive. You, and millions of Americans, on the other hand, are much like the blind men in the Hindu/Buddhist tale. They were each asked to say what an elephant felt like, by touch only. They each gave a different description. They could have never seen the whole picture and the same can be said of you and many of your fellow-men..
As Craig Sipple said "from outside the bubble looking in" I look at Americans as I see fish in a huge aquarium. Same idea.

A lot of you guys are as dumb as door-knobs but somehow function under the errant notion that you are brilliant as light-bulbs. The are on all TV networks delivering errant messages and spewing arrant nonsense. And THAT diatribe is lapped up as indisputable truth!

As to your fear of the Dems losing in November who do you think will be more responsible for that loss should it happen? A few bloggers in a whole universe of websites? Or the irreversible damage the Clintons are wreaking on the party?

I have said this before and I will say it again: The Clintons want to make history - The first female President AND the first First Lady to return to the WH as President. For them it is a personal ego-trip. For Obama, it is to save your country from people like them. Eat it or spit it -it is the truth.

People who are without jobs, without heath Insurance, without the posibility of finding a job because the jobs have been shipped over seas are bitter and angry. I was given a Marines baseball cap at a Marines recruiting station last month and inside was a label that said "made in China". As a retired Army Colonel that made me Angry as hell and if I was without health insurance, needed a job, couldn't provide a college education for my family I would be bitter as well as mad as hell. I guess Clinton think people without job and those who have lost their pesions are happy and just love the way things are. Somebody need to wake Hillary up so she can smell the coffee rather than give her a beer. Apparently she is drunk or half a sleep from answering those 3:00 AM phone calls.

S-pig

From outside the bubble looking in(Europe), it would appear that Kanuks assessment is fairly accurate. He has definately been paying attention.

Kanuk, you clearly are not paying attention so there is no use responding to your lengthy diatribe. I have made my points clearly and succinctly, you of course can disagree all you want.

I will not participate in your suicidal anti-Clinton rhetoric. You are naive and foolish and refuse to take responsibility for why Democrats lose elections; their own incompetence and weak candidates. Did Al Gore lose Tennessee due to vote fraud? No. All you do is whine like a sore loser.

Obama was not right about working class people and religion. It was insulting and patronizing to their deeply held faith which has existed for centuries. They are not religious because they are frustrated about losing jobs and this is the exact reason why Democrats can lose this November; eliist, patronizing, out of touch beliefs like yours that insult the moderate, independent swing voter!

Spig- How much is a few votes for you? Ten? One hundred? One Thousand? Ten thousand? One hundred thousand? Democrats do not lose because they do stupid things as you assert. They lose because the playing field is not level. The entire voting process is deeply flawed. A voting system must exist which will facilitate TRULY free and fair elections. It does not. If the Dems are to be faulted for losing elections, it is not caused by infighting or for saying things that you don't agree with - but for simply not taking up the gauntlet and challenging particularly the last two (s)elections! And changing the entire process..
As for Wrights' comments and Obamas' comments why are you so bent out of shape on them? Did Obama echo Wrights' comments at any time? Why are people using that as an attempt to crucify him? As for the bitterness of rural folks in Pennsylvania - again it is true, isn't? As for the guns and the anti-immigrant stance they take it is absolutely true! The guns become the power they have and demonstrate the power they also lack. Their bias is shown to "city folks" irrespective of skin colour. With jobs being taken away overseas and by free trade to those "foreigners" - how welcoming do you expect them to be to immigrants, particularly when they look like "they don't belong here"?
Get over your fretting about what Obama says. What he, and his wife have said is painfully true about the United States. It wasn't too long ago that blacks were not allowed to vote!

You should instead, focus how destructive both Hillary and Bill Clinton have become in their insane quest to the nomination. How can they both laud the same McCain you claim to loathe and villify their fellow Democrat Obama? Why did Bill imply that voters should make a choice between his lying wife or McCain?

Why are they not being taken to task by even YOU - being let off the hook on all their OWN misleading and hurtful comments in the last two months or so, and Obama is being pummelled for e.g. Wrights' comments?

If they agree with him on the controversial things, then they are in the extreme left minority; the moderate independents that will decide who the next president will reject him in favor of McCain as all the polls are showing, and you will get McCain and two more scalia's on the supreme court for life.

Insulting working class Americans, appearing patronizing and elitist, having your wife make arguably anti-American comments, etc. are a losing posture NO MATTER WHAT you say. It's Michael Dukakis all over again. McCain is perceived as an independent and has great appeal to swing voters, Reagan Democrats, etc.

Pay attention or fall on your sword like 3 million Ralph Nader morons did.

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People are unwilling to criticize Obama because they agree with him.

Why is that hard to understand?

Obama spoke a naughty way
for what he said was this:
"I am running for president. I am the perfect fit."
Now, one must know his word choice, "run,"
is elite, out of touch and sick!

Also, worst of all, you know,
It's a liberal permit
leading kids to "run"
and hurt themselves
and claim the right to "fits."

The others say things they do not mean
So, Obama's the hypocrit!

THIS POEM WAS INSPIERED BY SUCH POSTS AS:
These comments were NOT offensive because he said small town folks are hurting. What was elitest, offensive and patronizing is that he said . . . "they they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment".

Why are you so unwilling to criticize Obama?

Wrong. The Democrats lose because they do stupid things. Those elections should not have been decided by a few votes. The Democrats lose because this is a moderate country and Obama is heading down the Dukakis road once again. His wife's comments about America, Reverend Wright and now his elitist, patronizing comments demeaning hard working rust belt people of faith made to a closed door San Francisco liberal audience that he thought was private. Wait until the video surfaces.

Nixon cried experience; but Kennedy didn't make these bone headed mistakes. Just wait until the general election.

An even larger reason that the Democarts may lose this go around, is the elitist, faux-progressive, Obama is always right worshippers. They have so alienated Hillary Clinton's supporters that a significant number have said they will vote for McCain.

Spig - Democrats lost the two last elections because the GOP has mastered at cheating to win. In 2000 Al Gore won. It took two months for the Presidency to be decided by a Bush Sr stacked Supreme Court. In 2004 John Kerry was leading handsomely in exit polling. The projection was for him to win. We know who "won" again. Despite glaring evidence of vote rigging in Ohio, Florida and other states, Kerry and the Dems did not pursue legal challenges. Voting machines are rigged. Just ask Diebold Corp.
And other countries are being invaded to "democratise" them. What a joke!
So, no - cheating is a perfect example of why Democrats lose elections...