Antagonizing = not drinking the elitist kool-aid with a smile. Of course, differing points-of-view are not welcome, just the choir lauding you for what you preached.

9 days ago: Socialist Pig finishes antagonizing other commenters at BNF and presumably moves on to greener pastures.

7 days ago: We Need to Win begins antagonizing other commenters at BNF.

Coincidence? Baseless speculation? Maybe. Maybe not.

Have you been paying any attention at all? You must stop trying to establish legal equivalency between lawful permanent residents and undocumented immigrants. Not. The. Same. Look it up. But please, keep ignoring every point I make.

And yes, tell me about Mexico's laws. I could use the information.

yave begnet are you serious about this comment? "Yes, American citizens often run into problems with bureaucracy. The difference is they aren’t at risk of being deported when they do".

They aren't at risk of being deported because they are citizens! Hello! You really must stop trying to establish legal equivalency between undocumented immigrants and American citizens if you want to garner the support of the American people. Many, many countries have strict immigration laws that result in people being deported. Have you taken a look at Mexico's laws? Shall I detail them for you?

I know quite a few immigrants personally that go through the procedure with little or no difficulty. So do I. I help them fill out the forms myself. That is why I said “try some of those [low-cost] options first before shelling out thousands of dollars to a private attorney (some attorneys may not charge that much for what, in many cases, is a fairly simple process).”

The problem is that, for some unlucky applicants, what should be a simple procedure can end in deportation.

Also, your comments are confused. The subject of this post is permanent residents who are trying to naturalize. They did not enter illegally, or if they did, they already got straight with the government or they wouldn’t be permanent residents. You are still stuck on undocumented immigrants who are trying to get their green cards. Two totally different categories.

Yes, American citizens often run into problems with bureaucracy. The difference is they aren’t at risk of being deported when they do.

You are wrong. I watched the entire video and it's point was absolutely to detail the bureaucracy and expense that is involved in applying for citizenship That’s why I said “The complaint is not just the red tape, it's the extreme and unjust consequences that immigrants face.” Please address what I actually said.

Nor does your hyperbole that it is the norm. What you don't understand seemingly is that when you do something illegal and you try to move past that and make ammends there is a price to pay and three to five thousand dollars and a lot of paperwork is reasonable.

When an American "citizen" breaks the law they can go to jail or pay a huge fine and/or be put on probation for years. THis speaks to the fairness issue which is why you basically just cause sometimes falls on deaf ears with many well-meaning Americans. It's the fairnes issue.

Your experiences with these doesn't make it the norm either.

I know quite a few immigrants personally that go through the procedure with little or no difficulty. You shouldn't make it sound like it is the norm, it is not. I have been personally involved with three applicants and know of what I speak.

You are wrong. I watched the entire video and it's point was absolutely to detail the bureaucracy and expense that is involved in applying for citizenship, which is exactly what I pointed out in my previous post. It's not helpful for you to take a detour down the "character road", that was not the focus of the video.

The fact that it costs three grand and there's lots of paperwork is just the way it is and I don't think the majority of Americans think that's unfair.

There is no question that there are certain issues of unfairness that many applicants have to deal with. The same can be said for American citizens who run into all sorts of those things as well, being imprisoned wrongly, etc.

The reality that you have to deal in trying to effect meaningful change in immigration law, is that people broke the law when they came here illegally. That is a fact and many Americans who have to obey all sorts of laws every day of their lives have an issue with that, especially in the context of "perception" of special privilege.

There is a difference between racist bigots who are anti-immigrant and well-meaning Americans that want the law followed just as they have to.

Also, the application fee is $675. It's important to consult with an attorney before filing so as not to lose the application fee or end up in removal proceedings, but there are many non-profit organizations that offer legal services at low cost and AILA chapters nationwide have a "citizenship day" each April, so I would advise applicants to try some of those options first before shelling out thousands of dollars to a private attorney (some attorneys may not charge that much for what, in many cases, is a fairly simple process).

The complaint is not just the red tape, it's the extreme and unjust consequences that immigrants face, even often when they try to go through the correct channels.

WNTW, the complaint is not just about "some bureaucracy." The complaint is about the impenetrable mess that we call our immigration system, where applicants can be denied citizenship on amorphous "good moral character" grounds left mostly to the discretion of the adjudicating officer. Where permanent residents who have lived here nearly their whole lives can, by applying for citizenship, not only have their applications denied but find themselves in deportation proceedings if they committed certain misdemeanors, even if the charges were resolved decades ago.

To try and help you understand some of the well-meaning, non-racist push-back. It is a "fairness" issue to most Americans. I do not think a lot of sympathy will be garnered by complaining about some bureaucracy and $3-5,000 to become a citizen. American citizens throughout their lives deal with countless complex bureaucratic applications and rules and regulations for a myriad of issues. They also have to pay large sums of money for "discretionary" choices as well.

But I thought all we needed to do was "get in line!"

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