So, part of my reason in being here is to convince people, which means that while I might actually support and advocate going with mainstream America when it comes to passing actual legislation, when I'm talking here I'm going to try and show mainstream America why they should change their minds.

And this tiny comment thing is really annoying...AGH.

Also, you know, I can accept criticism of the pro-migrant movement and so on, but even while I can agree that America may think one thing while I think another, the reason that I'm writing in this blog is because I hope to get the reality and all of the facts out there, I hope to not only show the American people why I believe what I believe and why I have some damn good reasons for it, but also introduce them to us--the undocumented and their families--so that they can humanize all of the people being affected by this mess.

If there was a third option of something like community service as there used to be, then the military option wouldn't bother me, because it would be an actual option. As it is, you're going to have an essential draft of kids who have to join the army even if they don't want to because the DREAM Act makes them pay out of state tuition and the amount you can get in federal loans isn't much. Mainstream America isn't asking for mandatory military service in order to legalize, so I don't see why we should tack it on.

And the difference between hundreds of thousands of volunteers and DREAMers is that the volunteers are joining...well, voluntarily. I know several DREAMers who want to join the army voluntarily, including my husband. That is fine with me. That's their choice. The problem is when you get kids who, since the DREAM Act does not give them a chance for financial aid aside from very limited federal loans, are unable to complete the college option even though they want to, which leaves them being, in a way, drafted.

SP, and as for your comment towards Oathkeeper, your missing a main detail of his point--he was brought here as a child, and his attitude is very typical of the one to two million undocumented immigrants who have grown up in the U.S. It's not odd at all.

I think border security should be accomplished through other means, such as more border patrol agents with more training, sensors, lights, and support for private property owners who request it. Moreover, I think it should be accompanied with renegotiating NAFTA, as well as with talks with Mexico and Central American countries on how to create programs which would help to remove the incentive for immigration.

SP--sure, you're opinion is relevant. You might have something more to add to the conversation. If you don't want to state it, that's fine, but I would be interested to know.

As for border security, well, the wall is not what I have in mind. For one, it's easily scaled or broken through, and so serves only to slow down migrants and drug traffickers by a few minutes rather than keep them out. Second, it cuts through private property (or, as some bloggers have noted, rather selectively cuts through private property). Third, environmental damages. And fourth, I don't think a Berlin wall should be built between two friendly countries.

Whether you believe undocumented immigrants should be in jail or not, doesn't it bother you that Arpaio and his crew are racially profiling people and harassing Latino communities? That he associates with neo-Nazis? The number of people who have died while in his custody?

Aaaanyway, I'm more interested in something yave asked you that you haven't answered yet. You say that immigration reform won't happen unless it's more moderate. What would you consider to be the moderate solution? Remember that, even though the margin is narrower than before, the majority of Americans do support a path to legalization for undocumented immigrants if they learn English and pay a fine. If most Americans are okay with that, then why should we make CIR even more moderate than it already is, when it's already moderate enough for most Americans?

SP, for some people there is a line, but for most people who are here in the US illegally, there just isn't. Either they don't have the skills to get sponsored for a work permit, they don't have the money to come here for an education, or they don't have the family to be sponsored through them--or they're DREAMers who were brought here as kids whose parents made the decision for them. It's dishonest to tell them to get back in line, since they have none. It would at least be straightforward to tell them to stay home.

If you think about it, though, the wet foot dry foot policy is extremely inhumane. I don't want to derail this post, though, so I'll try to write something on that subject within the next week and hopefully we can have a conversation on that there.

Hey SP...good topic suggestion inre: Haitians vs. Cubans. I've talked about that on my own blog before, and hope to talk about it again here. I do think there is a racial aspect to it, but it's also more complex with that, and has a lot to do with our nasty history with communist countries (I think if you want to bring up the racial aspect, it might be more beneficial to compare China to Cuba, or compare Vietnam, where we are beginning to deport people who have been living here for over a decade to, to Cuba).

Someone in an earlier post, or perhaps on youtube, could not at all understand what I mean when I said that becoming undocumented did indeed often result from "misplaced unimportant paperwork": well, now you know.

As for the Case of Lovo...I don't even want to comment. You know, I even expect that we can see some justice for GBL immigrants within the next few years, but I'm afraid that the same thing for transgendered people is a long way off.

Best of luck, Brian!

Why all the mention of Mexicans? Only half of undocumented migrants are from Mexico. Are you okay with letting the migrants from India, Honduras, and Canada stay? You also say 'amnesty for children of Mexicans'...not all Mexicans or children of Mexicans are in this country illegally.

In what way are DREAMers living off of taxpayer dollars?

What makes you think that passing the DREAM Act will encourage more people to migrate? People don't migrate here because of amnesty. They come here becaucse of poor economies, wars, and so on in their home countries.

As for terrorists, do you support building a fence on the (a thousand times more porous) Canadian borders well?

How does my summary create loopholes for corruption?

Lone Wacko, I encourage you to read the post I made above about the DREAM Act. You might see some of your arguments addressed there.

As for your video, it starts off with a faulty premise. Do you have any proof for the allegations it makes?

To continue, I'm not even going to bother to address your racist assumption that the Hispanic children at the other school are here illegally. You say that your school does not offer things such as music, art, and a second language? Perhaps you should take that up with the school board. I live in Texas, the state with the second highest population of undocumented migrants, and we got all of those at our schools, from the middle class mostly white suburban school I went to, to the broke inner city school with a majority Latin@ student body. I don't know how you pay for schools in California, but here we pay through property taxes, which means that everybody pays (except homeless people), regardless of their immigration status.

I'm also curious as to the problem you seem to have with undocumented kids getting a K-12 education and undocumented migrants getting medical care. What is the alternative? Should we punish a kindergardner for the actions of his parents and deny him an education? Should we deny somebody who has been shot or accidentally cut their arm off emergency care because of their status? I thought we were better for that. These punishments--death, denial of education, extreme injury, infection, etc...--far outweigh the crime, don't you think? We have a bill of rights which bans cruel and unusual punishment.

Anonymous, Erikka pretty much addressed your post, but I just want to point out a couple of things...First of all, it's impossible for CA to have absorbed 5-15 million undocumented migrants after the 1986 reform, since only 3 million people were legalized in that reform. Even today, there are only about 12 million undocumented migrants in the entire country; California has three million.

As for the military, no, undocumented people cannot legally serve in the military. Some have done so, with mixed results. I have heard stories both of undocumented soldiers who served in Iraq and were given their citizenship, and others who served in Iraq and were dishonorably discharged when found out and, while not deported, left out of status even after risking their lives. The reason that the DREAM Act is necessary is because there isn't a way for DREAMers to legalize their status. If they could already do that, then we wouldn't need this legislation.

Indeed it is. I've heard stories from my father in law about the Bracero program and its abuses, too, and that was allegedly dismantled because of those abuses...and yet here we are still. This is why any suggestions of starting immigration reform off with a guest worker program puts me on edge.

If undocumented immigrants can get free benefits, I'm just wondering where our free health care is. If I had known my husband could get a piece of that, I wouldn't have been spending several months saving up for a possibly life saving exam that costs thousands of dollars! Maybe I'll at least get a refund once they realize he doesn't have his papers, since it's supposed to be free.